> The poll with 39 votes is pretty straight-forward: Most people don't
> like hybrid boxes. It's a fact, pure and simple.
Ryan, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Your poll, and
the related conclusion, is quite fuzzy.
The poll question:
>"Letterboxing and geocaching share some similarities and some people
combine the two into one box. If I HAD to choose one of these
answers, based on my experience
>I would:
> always combine the two if I can
> never combine the two I can
> only combine them in well-traveled places
> only combine them in seldom-traveled places
> only combine them in very remote places"
The only person who can make a choice of "combining" the hobbies
into one box is the person who places a box at a location and chooses
to write clues in a letterboxing format, a geocaching format, or
both. The rest of us can choose to go or not go to search for the
box, based on whether it's one, the other, both, or a myriad of other
factors. I believe your question doesn't solicit our views of what we
prefer to look for. It only asks about the boxes that we choose to
place. That's a significant difference, and it makes your conclusion,
that letterboxers dislike searching for hybrids simply because they
are hybrids, unreachable, at least based on this online poll.
I participate in both forms of this hobby and have no problem
looking for hybrids. But I don't expect to create one, based on the
type of letterbox clues that I plan to write (several mysteries
scouted and written, waiting for the trip to actually place them),
and the places where I plan to hide caches (off-trail, places where
I'm not creative enough to write a text description without the map
as a reference, so just mark the map with either a circle or the
lat/long).
Since lat/long will spoil any mystery clue, a hybrid's clue is
going to be straight forward. If your definition of a quality
letterbox requires something other than a straight forward clue,
hybrids are going to disappoint you. So will the majority of
letterboxes, since most clues are straight forward, regardless of
whether they are supplemented by lat/long. My definition of a quality
box is that it's where it's supposed to be, it and its contents are
in good repair, it's in a location where it won't be confiscated for
lack of landowner permission, and it's labeled and organized in a
manner that discourages vandalism and theft. There are quality caches,
letterboxes, and hybrids of all difficulties that meet this
definition. For a hybrid, part of a good box organization means that
the stamp is labeled clearly (perhaps a smaller box in a box) to
avoid it being traded out, and there is an explanation in the clues
and in the box, that the box is both a geocache and a letterbox.
I certainly appreciate the time and efforts that everyone puts
into placing boxes and caches. Some are better than others, but
that's a function of planning and materials for both types of
objects. Plant what you want. For me, there are plenty of factors
that will determine if I come looking for it, but specifically being
a letterbox or a hybrid will not be one of the factors.
Happy hunting.
Mike Brooks
Hybrids and Polls
5 messages in this thread |
Started on 2003-01-10
Hybrids and Polls
From: MIke Brooks (qocmike@email.msn.com) |
Date: 2003-01-10 13:59:04 UTC
Re: Hybrids and Polls
From: rscarpen (RiskyNil@hotmail.com) |
Date: 2003-01-10 16:52:38 UTC
> Your poll, and the related conclusion, is quite fuzzy.
Granted, it's not the best poll one could make for the hybrid
question, but it's NOT my poll. I just happened to find it while
wandering around the links on the left side of the screen. I have no
idea who made it or when it was created.
And I already said it's not scientifically accurate--but it seems
reasonable to think that most people who prefer not to hide hybrid
boxes also aren't inclined to find them. If someone wants to find a
geocache, they don't come to the letterboxing board in order to find
them!
But if you still don't believe me, at the next letterboxing gathering
you go to, ask around if people would prefer to find hybrid or stand-
alone letterboxes. The overwhelming amount of letterboxes prefer
stand-alone.
Which is NOT to say they will not look for hybrids, but that they'd
prefer not to. And I kind of feel--as someone who does hide
letterboxes--that it's kind of my 'duty' to hide the best boxes
possible so people can enjoy them as much as possible. Going against
the grain like that will upset some people, but going with the grain
upsets nobody. A great letterbox is something people like--which
automatically gives a hybrid a handicap.
> If your definition of a quality letterbox requires something other
> than a straight forward clue, hybrids are going to disappoint you.
> So will the majority of letterboxes, since most clues are straight
> forward, regardless of whether they are supplemented by lat/long.
If you've read my webpage about creating great letterboxes, the clue
is only one aspect to a quality letterbox. And in some cases, a
straight-forward clue is the BEST clue for some letterboxes. It
depends on your audience, where the box is hidden, and any number of
factors.
As a whole, I tend to enjoy boxes more when they don't have straight-
forward clues, but that's certainly not my only criteria!
In any case, defending hybrids is a silly exercise since it's easy
enough to separate them and hide them near each other. Everybody's
happy, it requires virtually no extra effort, and what's the problem?
> For a hybrid, part of a good box organization means that
> the stamp is labeled clearly (perhaps a smaller box in a box) to
> avoid it being traded out
Okay, if you've ALREADY got a smaller box in the geocache for the
letterbox, is it really that much effort to hide it behind the next
tree and call them two totally different boxes? Why are you so fixed
on hybrids? Perhaps they don't bother you, but they DO bother other
people. I've NEVER heard of anyone complaining that a letterbox
wasn't a hybrid, so why not hide them separately and make EVERYBODY
happy?
Whenever you hide a letterbox or geocache, you have to keep in mind
that it's not just for your personal gratification, but other people
will be looking for your boxes and you (I would hope!) want to give
them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!
-- Ryan
Granted, it's not the best poll one could make for the hybrid
question, but it's NOT my poll. I just happened to find it while
wandering around the links on the left side of the screen. I have no
idea who made it or when it was created.
And I already said it's not scientifically accurate--but it seems
reasonable to think that most people who prefer not to hide hybrid
boxes also aren't inclined to find them. If someone wants to find a
geocache, they don't come to the letterboxing board in order to find
them!
But if you still don't believe me, at the next letterboxing gathering
you go to, ask around if people would prefer to find hybrid or stand-
alone letterboxes. The overwhelming amount of letterboxes prefer
stand-alone.
Which is NOT to say they will not look for hybrids, but that they'd
prefer not to. And I kind of feel--as someone who does hide
letterboxes--that it's kind of my 'duty' to hide the best boxes
possible so people can enjoy them as much as possible. Going against
the grain like that will upset some people, but going with the grain
upsets nobody. A great letterbox is something people like--which
automatically gives a hybrid a handicap.
> If your definition of a quality letterbox requires something other
> than a straight forward clue, hybrids are going to disappoint you.
> So will the majority of letterboxes, since most clues are straight
> forward, regardless of whether they are supplemented by lat/long.
If you've read my webpage about creating great letterboxes, the clue
is only one aspect to a quality letterbox. And in some cases, a
straight-forward clue is the BEST clue for some letterboxes. It
depends on your audience, where the box is hidden, and any number of
factors.
As a whole, I tend to enjoy boxes more when they don't have straight-
forward clues, but that's certainly not my only criteria!
In any case, defending hybrids is a silly exercise since it's easy
enough to separate them and hide them near each other. Everybody's
happy, it requires virtually no extra effort, and what's the problem?
> For a hybrid, part of a good box organization means that
> the stamp is labeled clearly (perhaps a smaller box in a box) to
> avoid it being traded out
Okay, if you've ALREADY got a smaller box in the geocache for the
letterbox, is it really that much effort to hide it behind the next
tree and call them two totally different boxes? Why are you so fixed
on hybrids? Perhaps they don't bother you, but they DO bother other
people. I've NEVER heard of anyone complaining that a letterbox
wasn't a hybrid, so why not hide them separately and make EVERYBODY
happy?
Whenever you hide a letterbox or geocache, you have to keep in mind
that it's not just for your personal gratification, but other people
will be looking for your boxes and you (I would hope!) want to give
them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!
-- Ryan
Re: Hybrids and Polls
From: mtnmudbug (mudbug@partlycloudy.com) |
Date: 2003-01-10 17:07:38 UTC
Ryan says ......."want to give
them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!"........
To me this includes the message boards, where you are ruining good
reading by foisting your opinions as the best way, the right way, the
most logical way. If you don't like hybrids don't look for them, but
quit trying to convince others to stop placing them. Let it rest.
them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!"........
To me this includes the message boards, where you are ruining good
reading by foisting your opinions as the best way, the right way, the
most logical way. If you don't like hybrids don't look for them, but
quit trying to convince others to stop placing them. Let it rest.
Re: Hybrids and Polls
From: Brian, Ryan & Lori (bconnoll@marksonrosenthal.com) |
Date: 2003-01-10 17:26:26 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "mtnmudbug "
wrote:
> Ryan says ......."want to give
> them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!"........
>
> To me this includes the message boards, where you are ruining good
> reading by foisting your opinions as the best way, the right way,
the
> most logical way. If you don't like hybrids don't look for them,
but
> quit trying to convince others to stop placing them. Let it rest.
Amen
> Ryan says ......."want to give
> them the best possible experience you can. I know I do!"........
>
> To me this includes the message boards, where you are ruining good
> reading by foisting your opinions as the best way, the right way,
the
> most logical way. If you don't like hybrids don't look for them,
but
> quit trying to convince others to stop placing them. Let it rest.
Amen
Re: [LbNA] Hybrids and Polls
From: Dog Scouts of America (Lonnie@dogscouts.com) |
Date: 2003-01-10 19:47:04 UTC-05:00
Of the two, I prefer letterboxing, though we found 5 geocaches today...
There are no letterboxes in my area at all. I have considered placing
hybrids to interest the other geocachers in letterboxing. I've talked
online with a couple of them, and they say, tell me more about letterboxing!
Maybe we can get some people crossed over, so that they'll start planting
letterboxes. There's a gazillion geocaches around here.
So, to answer the poll, I would place Hybrids in remote areas that were
devoid of letterboxes in a selfish attempt to get more people to cross over
and do both.
DogIsMyCoPirate
(Lonnie from St. Helen Michigan)
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Hybrids and Polls
> > The poll with 39 votes is pretty straight-forward: Most people don't
> > like hybrid boxes. It's a fact, pure and simple.
>
> Ryan, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Your poll, and
> the related conclusion, is quite fuzzy.
>
> The poll question:
>
> >"Letterboxing and geocaching share some similarities and some people
> combine the two into one box. If I HAD to choose one of these
> answers, based on my experience
> >I would:
> > always combine the two if I can
> > never combine the two I can
> > only combine them in well-traveled places
> > only combine them in seldom-traveled places
> > only combine them in very remote places"
>
> The only person who can make a choice of "combining" the hobbies
> into one box is the person who places a box at a location and chooses
> to write clues in a letterboxing format, a geocaching format, or
> both. The rest of us can choose to go or not go to search for the
> box, based on whether it's one, the other, both, or a myriad of other
> factors. I believe your question doesn't solicit our views of what we
> prefer to look for. It only asks about the boxes that we choose to
> place. That's a significant difference, and it makes your conclusion,
> that letterboxers dislike searching for hybrids simply because they
> are hybrids, unreachable, at least based on this online poll.
>
> I participate in both forms of this hobby and have no problem
> looking for hybrids. But I don't expect to create one, based on the
> type of letterbox clues that I plan to write (several mysteries
> scouted and written, waiting for the trip to actually place them),
> and the places where I plan to hide caches (off-trail, places where
> I'm not creative enough to write a text description without the map
> as a reference, so just mark the map with either a circle or the
> lat/long).
>
> Since lat/long will spoil any mystery clue, a hybrid's clue is
> going to be straight forward. If your definition of a quality
> letterbox requires something other than a straight forward clue,
> hybrids are going to disappoint you. So will the majority of
> letterboxes, since most clues are straight forward, regardless of
> whether they are supplemented by lat/long. My definition of a quality
> box is that it's where it's supposed to be, it and its contents are
> in good repair, it's in a location where it won't be confiscated for
> lack of landowner permission, and it's labeled and organized in a
> manner that discourages vandalism and theft. There are quality caches,
> letterboxes, and hybrids of all difficulties that meet this
> definition. For a hybrid, part of a good box organization means that
> the stamp is labeled clearly (perhaps a smaller box in a box) to
> avoid it being traded out, and there is an explanation in the clues
> and in the box, that the box is both a geocache and a letterbox.
>
> I certainly appreciate the time and efforts that everyone puts
> into placing boxes and caches. Some are better than others, but
> that's a function of planning and materials for both types of
> objects. Plant what you want. For me, there are plenty of factors
> that will determine if I come looking for it, but specifically being
> a letterbox or a hybrid will not be one of the factors.
>
> Happy hunting.
>
> Mike Brooks
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
There are no letterboxes in my area at all. I have considered placing
hybrids to interest the other geocachers in letterboxing. I've talked
online with a couple of them, and they say, tell me more about letterboxing!
Maybe we can get some people crossed over, so that they'll start planting
letterboxes. There's a gazillion geocaches around here.
So, to answer the poll, I would place Hybrids in remote areas that were
devoid of letterboxes in a selfish attempt to get more people to cross over
and do both.
DogIsMyCoPirate
(Lonnie from St. Helen Michigan)
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Hybrids and Polls
> > The poll with 39 votes is pretty straight-forward: Most people don't
> > like hybrid boxes. It's a fact, pure and simple.
>
> Ryan, I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Your poll, and
> the related conclusion, is quite fuzzy.
>
> The poll question:
>
> >"Letterboxing and geocaching share some similarities and some people
> combine the two into one box. If I HAD to choose one of these
> answers, based on my experience
> >I would:
> > always combine the two if I can
> > never combine the two I can
> > only combine them in well-traveled places
> > only combine them in seldom-traveled places
> > only combine them in very remote places"
>
> The only person who can make a choice of "combining" the hobbies
> into one box is the person who places a box at a location and chooses
> to write clues in a letterboxing format, a geocaching format, or
> both. The rest of us can choose to go or not go to search for the
> box, based on whether it's one, the other, both, or a myriad of other
> factors. I believe your question doesn't solicit our views of what we
> prefer to look for. It only asks about the boxes that we choose to
> place. That's a significant difference, and it makes your conclusion,
> that letterboxers dislike searching for hybrids simply because they
> are hybrids, unreachable, at least based on this online poll.
>
> I participate in both forms of this hobby and have no problem
> looking for hybrids. But I don't expect to create one, based on the
> type of letterbox clues that I plan to write (several mysteries
> scouted and written, waiting for the trip to actually place them),
> and the places where I plan to hide caches (off-trail, places where
> I'm not creative enough to write a text description without the map
> as a reference, so just mark the map with either a circle or the
> lat/long).
>
> Since lat/long will spoil any mystery clue, a hybrid's clue is
> going to be straight forward. If your definition of a quality
> letterbox requires something other than a straight forward clue,
> hybrids are going to disappoint you. So will the majority of
> letterboxes, since most clues are straight forward, regardless of
> whether they are supplemented by lat/long. My definition of a quality
> box is that it's where it's supposed to be, it and its contents are
> in good repair, it's in a location where it won't be confiscated for
> lack of landowner permission, and it's labeled and organized in a
> manner that discourages vandalism and theft. There are quality caches,
> letterboxes, and hybrids of all difficulties that meet this
> definition. For a hybrid, part of a good box organization means that
> the stamp is labeled clearly (perhaps a smaller box in a box) to
> avoid it being traded out, and there is an explanation in the clues
> and in the box, that the box is both a geocache and a letterbox.
>
> I certainly appreciate the time and efforts that everyone puts
> into placing boxes and caches. Some are better than others, but
> that's a function of planning and materials for both types of
> objects. Plant what you want. For me, there are plenty of factors
> that will determine if I come looking for it, but specifically being
> a letterbox or a hybrid will not be one of the factors.
>
> Happy hunting.
>
> Mike Brooks
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>